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Author Topic: Fighting The Other You - Imported from Comments  (Read 5077 times)

Tony Crisp

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Fighting The Other You - Imported from Comments
« on: November 09, 2017, 10:01:12 AM »
Tara

Many thanks Tony.
I appreciate how you have presented the duality between A and B, the good and evil. I wasn't getting the duality aspect of it. I hated that there was a 'B' around because all I was yearning for is to be 'A'.

But now the new possibility arises that the two can co-exist and I don't have to resent 'B' so much. (wow I can't believe I used the words hated and resent.I had no idea I felt so strongly).

My whole life I have been seeking 'A' to get away from ' B' . Am I seeking the impossible?
Will ' B' always exist in waking life while 'A' remains Unconscious ?

« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 10:05:27 AM by Tony Crisp »

Tony Crisp

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Re: Fighting The Other You - Imorted from Comments
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 10:04:08 AM »
Tara - Most of our cultural beliefs are built on the huge conflict and warfare between the 'A' and 'B' side of life and oneself. Most of this is presented in such films as Lord of the Ring, where the Dark side has to conquer and KILL the Light side - and vice versa.

We are also shown films of zombies, werewolves, demons and vampires that have to be fought and killed. Even Dragons, which in dreams represent the huge sleeping power of Life, in our culture have to be fought and killed. Yet my exploration of such creatures has always shown them as parts of myself I had been scared of and so repressed, making them almost lifeless, and trying to climb out of the grave I had pushed them in. See the beginning of http://dreamhawk.com/dream-encyclopedia/integration-meeting-oneself/

Thanks for telling us about, "I hated that there was a 'B' around because all I was yearning for is to be 'A'.

But now the new possibility arises that the two can co-exist and I don't have to resent 'B' so much. (wow I can't believe I used the words hated and resent.I had no idea I felt so strongly).

My whole life I have been seeking 'A' to get away from ' B' . Am I seeking the impossible?
Will ' B' always exist in waking life while 'A' remains Unconscious ?"

My first inkling of it how wrong the fight between the A and B was when I dreamt in 1982 about a huge underground goddess/serpent which was trying to destroy London - the town I lived in.

"My family thought I was crazy because I was trying to tell them about this power and they sent for a doctor. I was very pleased to see him because he was very unbiased, though not believing - nor disbelieving. I explained my experience and feelings. With him there I dared to poke at the floor with a long scaffold pole. The pole was ripped from my grasp by some force below. I had tied the pole to a beam fasted with a chain. The pole ripped part of the beam off. I felt there was enough power to tear down my house if I had used it as an anchor. Then wondering what to do I saw the figure of Christ standing in the basement. Somehow I merged the Christ and the serpent/woman together and evil was neutralised - but so was the power of Christ. I felt with great strength that it was out of the melding of evil and good that great creativity came."

Tony
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 10:10:30 AM by Tony Crisp »

dreamy

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Re: Fighting The Other You - Imported from Comments
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 01:43:46 PM »
Thanks Tony.I have been working at integrating whatever hidden aspects of myself are revealed in dreams and emotional reactions.
I recall a dream I had seven months ago that is directly related to the subject of duality. Here again my Animus is represented as two men (Duality of A and B ) but there is also a third entity in the dream:

The Dream:
A huge monster in a cave.Two guys are figuring out how to escape.It's so big it's body is deep below, inside the earth as big as the mountain.Only the face is seen in the cave emerging from below.It's enormous with big eyes.Just as they manage to find a way to escape one man goes back in.I ask why?
He wants to put a noisy object on the monster so that it gets frightened/disturbed by  the sound.It will be on it's own body but it won't realize where it is and that will always annoy the monster.
 It's too dangerous I feel.The guy gets caught and the monster says,"See now he is almost dead".He tells the other guy to watch him die,his eyes are melting,the upper part of his face and eyes is melting away.
The monster has big glittering eyes.I wonder what his eyes see of the little guys as his eyes are so big.I wonder how the two really small guys must appear to the monster in his big,enormous eyes and what the monster sees through his giant eyes?
How clearly it must be seeing the two men even though they are so tiny compared to the monster, because they are so close to it's eyes.In the cave they are at the monster's eye level.

I am guessing this maybe a visit from a deeper part of the mind. Perhaps the old perception is melting away and I am now seeing more clearly with bigger eyes ( bigger perception ?).The two guys represent duality but one is dying so the polarity is transforming ?
What could "the two men are so tiny compared to the monster" represent?
Something more powerful than the Animus and duality is emerging and 'seeing'?

 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 03:35:14 AM by tara »

Tony Crisp

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Re: Fighting The Other You - Imported from Comments
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 12:08:38 PM »
Tara – Don’t hang your understanding of your own dream images on any words or definitions such as animus or anima. They are helpful, but dreams are ever creative – which means the new emerging. In a sense we have two mental activities. One is thinking that looks upon the already revealed or written; it is a form of looking back to old knowledge. In Christianity this is represented by Joseph the old husband of Mary, the carpenter, making things from wood, the already grown. Another way of mental activity is to look into the unknown and formless, and gradually bringing recognisable form and shape to it. In Christianity this is represented by Mary, the virginal mind free from any preconceptions.

The huge monster can be seen in many ways, as the huge living awareness that is behind everything, the cosmic man, even the huge awareness that give our little selves life.

“I am a vehicle – just a vehicle.” I had a distinct sense that it was that which was working on me, forming me into a better vehicle. And this reminded me of an experience that I had. It was where I had seen the bubbles rising when I was peeing in the toilet. I saw each one as eye, but when I looked closer it was me/I – an ‘I’ in each bubble. I thought at the time that I was like a god, and my consciousness was in each bubble, but they only had life through me. Then a realisation occurred that at the time scared me. It was that I was a bubble and my awareness was because a bigger being was what caused the reflection. So, I felt that what was working on me was a bigger self and I was simply a reflection of something much bigger.” 

So look closer.

The aim in the end is not to complicate things making them more mystical, obscure or spiritual, but simple so that we can understand our life and ourselves.

Tony



dreamy

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Re: Fighting The Other You - Imported from Comments
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 12:30:33 PM »
Thank you for sharing your experience Tony.The Big "I " and the  little "i" (or Brahman and the jiva) reminds me of this favourite quote from the Ramayana:
Lord Ram gave Hanuman a quizzical look and said, "What are you, a monkey or a man?" Hanuman bowed his head reverently, folded his hands and said, "When I do not know who I am, I serve You and when I do know who I am, You and I are One." -Tulsidas Ramayana.

I am so surprised that one of the men in the dream is deliberately trying to annoy and disturb the monster.It doesn't sound like something I would do.Not even to another human being let alone to something that is so huge and enormous.
I wonder what the noisy object represents? My approach has always been one of reverence and devotion for the higher awareness.However I was exploring dream incubation and I was persistently working on integrating the shadow aspects and integrating the dark/hidden side of my animus and working with archetypes.

I am curious what the two men represent in the dream and why one of them is killed by the monster ,why does the monster want the other man to watch this man dying and why does the monster melt the man's eyes ?

The followup response in my psyche at this point is this dark dream:

A young girl goes for a therapy session with total trust.Her face has an expression of complete openness and trust. She enters the therapists office but once the door closes I  get the feeling that she is physically violated in there.She is then left on the road.
Her landlord and landlady( an old man and old woman ) find her sitting completely naked on her bed in her room.Her face is expressionless in the aftermath.Her boyfriend is standing close by and the kind landlord is patting her leg and the compassionate landlady is also there for her to comfort her.They seem to have guessed what has happened to her.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 08:22:04 AM by gt »

Tony Crisp

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Re: Fighting The Other You - Imported from Comments
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 10:06:29 AM »
GreenTara - Obviously the Big One kills the smaller guy, because this sirt if death - for example when we entered our teenage years, in a sense the teenager killed the child. But the dream awareness sees death very differently than the human- body-mind. Death transform because og growth. Nothing in the universe dies, it is transformed into another expression.

Each of us are immersed in a ‘river’ of constant change. If you think about it you have been carried, pushed, impelled by this current as you were moved through babyhood, childhood, teenage and adulthood. And as we passed through these changes we died to our old self in order to change to the new. It is the current of Life. This current then carries us on through old age and through the gates of death. All the time we are faced by decisions, and each decision directs us on a different path, helping to create our future. And this is a force of growth and change; and is fought like hell by many as we are afraid of such changes, especially getting old and facing death.

Also you say you wouldn't do that - "It doesn't sound like something I would do.Not even to another human being let alone to something that is so huge and enormous." But a modern view of the personality says that our mind is made up of many modules which are quite distinct. These modules, such as the sexual drive and the ability to speak, usually function in a way which is reasonably integrated. But many areas of dissimilarity are evident if we closely observe the workings of our own responses to life experiences. Because we each hold certain ideas about ourselves – our self image – things we do which do not express this self image may shock or even frighten us. Actions arising from a module of oneself which does not express our accepted self image, may give rise not only to fear, but also a sense of evil, or being possessed by evil.

Quotes - "God was singing it, on the radio. Then the surface shook again, and I knew it was only a great skin covering the one life. No one, nowhere, no time, sang who did not sing as God. No one danced, or fucked, or shit, or did up their shoelace, except that one life did it."

"At the surrender of my sexual feelings it had come out of me quite spontaneously, “God - fuck me!” I was a bit shocked, but let it go, but couldn’t really understand why I had felt - thought - this. Now, in the session, the masturbation had only satisfied a part of the passion. My legs went wide open and I began to cry out - in my mind - “God, fuck me. Please, fuck me. I must have a fuck.” 

The next is from a man who really let go - "This developed into animal growls of rage. Images and feelings began to come into this. I was a primeval beast, an ape. My growls were rage against anything that threatened my existence. The rage was explosive animal fear, fear of being destroyed, fear that gave the energy to rend or kill anything that threatened. I saw how, out of this roaring fear, still in us humans, so much violence, hate, war, carnage arises in the world."

Have really read http://dreamhawk.com/approaches-to-being/lifes-little-secrets/

The lovely open girl is just one side of her duality. If she were whole she would have seen or sensed the danger. "I was walking home, a country road I had walked hundreds of times. But this day I suddenly felt great fear with the warning to get as far from the road as possible. I get almost into the hedge looking for the danger the warning gave. A car had stopped in the middle of the road to turn into gateway, paused because traffic was coming the other way. Then suddenly the sound of tyres skidding on the wet road, and the car shot onto the pavement between me and the parked car and was gone."

Tony   
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 10:34:36 AM by Tony Crisp »