Welcome, Guest. Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Author Topic: felt like reading a poem... and here a dream again  (Read 294 times)

Monica

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
felt like reading a poem... and here a dream again
« on: December 10, 2017, 01:28:30 AM »
 ::)Right now I was just wondering because some idle worry came to my mind after having written to someone I used to know (that I know probably won't read what I wrote to him). I thought the dumb expectance of writing to someone that doesn't care suddenly turned into a wild fear and I asked myself why? Do I really fear this person, or am I doing the wrong thing and feel guilty about it? I just kept thinking of it and all of those awkward feelings that appear when something's falling apart, like the tooth in a dream I had some days ago.

But also I felt sort of happy of knowing that the person won't read, so I can feel safe and at ease with the level of "exposure" it all has. I came to read something on here because it's one of my favorites when I feel blurred in my mind, just searching for an "inspiration". So I took a rapid look to the introduction of your poetry and said wow! how wonderful to feel the strength and power in those words about pain and love and life. And then it came, the title of one of them, that reminded me of the dream I had this morning: I said to a man, as we walked through a large corridor (as in a stadium in a vast field) -I know, I know, I know. He laughed as if I was talking nonsense, so I repeated until he approved (I didn't talk his language, that was the apparent thing). Here it is what I found http://dreamhawk.com/poems/i-dont-know/,  an unexpected and indirect but sure calling about my worries and dreams...

 ;)

Tony Crisp

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2884
    • View Profile
    • Dreamhawk.com
Re: felt like reading a poem... and here a dream again
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2017, 11:14:02 AM »
Thanks Monica – That was written in October 1973, but I only recently came across it again. It was during a session of LifeStream – maybe it explains also something about our speech centre/throat chakra.

“The sounds were just a wordless song going up the scale, becoming more and more positive and powerful. After some minutes, eventually I word came out - “You”. This was repeated, in song, and became, “You know.” This also was repeated tunefully several times, and then suddenly led to, “You know, I don’t know.”

Each new phrase was repeated over and over before the next few words arose. So, a song, and then a longer piece arose. At some point in the song, which went on for some time, I became quite emotional, but not intensely.

As the song ended I was bent up with emotion, for I had stood up as the song got underway. It might be better to say the emotion ended the song, for at this point it became intense. It was so intense, no crying could occur. My mouth was fixed open as happened on October 9th 1973. The internal struggle was enormous, like being hit in the solar plexus and trying to breathe. A tremendous emotion was trying to express, but was stuck in the rigid mouth and body. Gradually, drying, croaking sounds emerged from my throat. They were sounds of extreme emotion and emotional pain, incapable of expression. These sounds developed into dry sobs, my body half crouched and shaking with despair. My right-hand went to my face, then my mouth. My left hand held near or on my genitals. Looking back I believe this showed the genital and oral pain being felt. Then the block burst, and the weeping poured out. My right-hand was now pushed into my mouth - all the fingers were in my mouth. Tears and saliva and mucus from the nose ran down my face, and at last the force of the emotions emerged. I was calling out, “No mummy. No mummy. Mummy, mummy, mummy!” I believe it was the re-experiencing of the time my mother told me she was going to put me in a home.

Tony
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 11:17:15 AM by Tony Crisp »

Monica

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: felt like reading a poem... and here a dream again
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2017, 05:18:11 PM »
 :'(
Thanks a lot!
(Thanks for sharing with such an honest and generous fashion things that are so intimate, that mean so much
in someone's personal experience, and that way sometimes become so difficult to share :)

It's again so interesting, so encouraging for me to know those kind of wonderful experiences behind the words we read or talk... It's difficult to imagine but I try to make a vivid picture of what you describe, thinking of all of those emotions that we try to explain on an "intellectual level", but nevertheless being all about feelings, the body itself expressing in all the means possible as it releases from the burdens of "thinking". I'd like to experiment with sound as you describe, it's amazing because it's the most difficult part, as much as it's so linked with the struggle between our "wild" self (pre-verbal) and our intelectual one (the one we become after language). I think most of the secrets of life are behind that "curtain or veil" of knowledge, that lies beyond the images, mostly "visual" for our understanding. It holds a power and a secret not only about the individual, but the colective; so I guess history is mainly made of that part that is so tricky to us. Again it's amazing and wonderful to connect through those "translations", because when I read your poem I didn't even imagine a little bit of the background but for some reason I saw all the performing thing, and that way my intuition told me something about the deepest meaning of it all, the one that connects two totally different and supposedly "unknown" people and brings them together trhough the universal of experience, of love (even in its saddest or "ugly" forms).
I thank God for this opportunity to share with a different but at the same time alike mind, that encourages the will to go beyond our human feelings and interpretations to reach the holiest goal, connecting with that which makes us all ONE. ¡Thanks again!
(I'd love to know about many of those experiences that spread all over the dream interpretation and articles' site!)

Tony Crisp

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2884
    • View Profile
    • Dreamhawk.com
Re: felt like reading a poem... and here a dream again
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2017, 01:49:32 PM »
Monica – The many experiences, well I have a list. But not yet all of them in http://dreamhawk.com/dream-encyclopedia/features-found-on-site/

I guess we hide so much of ourselves; even what was said in my personal experience, was only part of the story. For such stories are about love and anger that goes back to long past experiences – love and anger on both sides. And in this life we experiences the consequences of it.

As an example of this, some years ago life events led me to face a very painful experience. My wife was living abroad for a while and I did not know when she was coming back. This triggered the release in me of a terror I had kept buried since the age of three. At that time my mother, at the doctor’s suggestion, had sent me away to a convalescent hospital because my health was poor. Unfortunately, because my grandmother had been my prime carer, and had died before I had reached the age of two, I had already experienced great loss. This had left me open to the fear of abandonment. Being at the hospital released this terror that I had been abandoned.

Meeting that terror again in my late 40s was almost more than I could bear. Although the feeling was originally connected with my mother, as usually happens, whoever we love becomes the target for such fears. In meeting these awful feelings, I traced the origin of them back to the events mentioned. But the terrific anger I felt to my mother at exposing me to such unbearable emotions, also spilled over onto my wife.

The anger did not abate and it became obvious that unless I could forgive my mother, I would ruin my marriage with my anger.

It was difficult to find this forgiveness because I felt that what my mother had done was unforgivable. Of course none of this was neatly rational. The feelings were burning beyond reason, and could not be rationalised away. But I could not ignore the fact that this was not, in the end, about my mother, but about myself. My continued anger was ruining my life. So for my own sake I had to sincerely forgive my mother. This was not a fast change, and it was not easy. But it did release me from the crippling effects of the anger. And some effects of non-forgiveness in these situations are quite subtle. One might, for instance, avoid success in one’s life so that those close to you could never feel the pleasure or relaxation of that.

However, forgiveness sometimes has a much more profound significance. I believe that our primal life difficulties, such as mine connected with abandonment, actually have their roots in the long past. It may be easy for us to recognise that my terror can be traced back to the events mentioned in this lifetime. From this we can say, “Yes, the fears he faced as an adult were caused by the loss of his grandmother. And his mother’s decision to put him in the hospital restimulated that fear.”

However, if we can agree that we can trace things back to causative events, why can’t we also say, the original events also had causes? For instance, my mother did other things later in my life to deepen my terror of abandonment. Why?

From the viewpoint of modern genetics, it is understandable that a present day sickness in an individual’s life may be the result of events from generations ago. We understand that the gene pool, from which our own physical body arises, has had negative and positive features added to it over tens of thousands of years. Therefore our present physical, and to some extent psychological, situation, arises out of events in the long past. If we can understand this, then we might also understand and accept that besides a gene pool, there is also a behavioural pool out of which a great deal of human behaviour arises. This is particularly evident in comparing different cultures where certain types of behaviour are passed on for thousands of years.

Some people think of this in terms of past lives. But we can also think of it simply as past events that influence our present life experience as causative factors. So, because it is easier to explain, I will create a scenario using the imagery of past lives.

Supposing in the far past I had hurt and abandoned a child. Supposing the child I had hurt in that previous lifetime is my mother in this lifetime, and she has never forgiven me for what I did. In other words, the actions generated by the past hurt are causative factors, are active and alive in the life of my mother, and are therefore influencing her. In this present life, my mother is in a position of power, and I am the vulnerable child now. So, from whatever it was in her deep unconscious that influenced her actions, she still wishes to hurt me, and did so several times. Actually that was created out of memories.

How far do we have to go back?

And then, in prayer I asked why this lifelong misery had been my lot. I experienced the immediate impression that I had myself betrayed someone’s love in the past. When I asked the question who, the memory and meaning came to me, my mother walking me home prior to telling me she was going to put me in an orphanage. She said, “You hurt me. Now I am going to hurt you.”

I feel as if she was telling me of my fate, and that I had indeed deeply hurt her in the distant past – past life. As her child I was the vulnerable one, and it was my turn to feel pain. My God, what a journey! God forgive me. God forgive my mother. I saw that true forgiveness ends this terrible cycle of pain and vengeance.

Tony
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 10:23:20 AM by Tony Crisp »

Monica

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: felt like reading a poem... and here a dream again
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2017, 08:34:37 PM »
Wow, again all I have to say is THANKS!
I'm very thankful that you have shared those experiences that are so hard, the strength in your words that nevertheless explains your personal pain in a way full of compassion and understanding...
It took so many days for me to have some words to say about this, not just because I think I should, but because your words touched me so deeply... For instance I'd written about the poem because I was having hard times remembering and trying to reaching out someone that became unapproachable after having "abandoned" me in some way. He made just so hard for me to take the whole process of forgiving on that for some months I just thought I'd never do it, I'd just have to live with hate against this person. And it was horrible for me because even though I've certainly had a lot of hardships in my relationships with people (most of all family) I've never felt such hatred and frustration before.

Your poem soothed that "rational" part of me that was questioning me WHY did I have the need to know about this person, why I still think he owes me explanations that he clearly refused to give at the right time. This last response you have given was really shocking because of your sincerity, and the fullness in the vision of the multiple points of view; it amazed me and made me "think" beyond the usual, that is almost always about guilt and shame that we don't want to feel, and we use to put in another.

The amount of passion in your words equals the peace that the expression of your experience offers... and that's just so amazing! Yes, definitely forgiveness is the only way. Doesn't really matter if you believe everything is the product of history, culture, genetics, I think that, as you say, it's all inside a spiritual compendium of all things: individual, collective, ancestral, forthcoming...) I'd comment that for me particularly the conflict has been always about the "splitting" in gender issues. I won't say anything else because the important thing you've pointed here is that there's a real need for us to understand that going beyond our limitations, understanding that experience is "just so" and there are important lessons in pain and hurt can save us.
Personally, the day I understood that repentance and forgiveness were the first steps to go on and stop ruining my life, everything changed for good. It was of course a process but I'm happy to say that I've found peace even when I feel overwhelmed sometimes, maybe saying, doing things that seem like getting stuck or flinching, like trying to repeat the same. We are humans after all...
I'd like to thank you a lot and sharing with you a Psalm that I think summarizes well the beautiful and precise words you told about your experience and feelings: (One of the Psalms that helped me to get to the point of forgiving and repentance, because I know God doesn't judge us, the reason there are things that we see as "wrong" is because He is telling us that those things will cause unnecesary pain, and he wants us to protect our own hearts, and the hearts of others).
 ;)
PSALM 32
Blessed is the one
    whose sin the Lord does not count against them
    and in whose spirit is no deceit.

3
When I kept silent,
    my bones wasted away
    through my groaning all day long.
4
For day and night
    your hand was heavy on me;
my strength was sapped
    as in the heat of summer.

5
Then I acknowledged my sin to you
    and did not cover up my iniquity.
I said, “I will confess
    my transgressions to the Lord.”
And you forgave
    the guilt of my sin.

6
Therefore let all the faithful pray to you
    while you may be found;
surely the rising of the mighty waters
    will not reach them.
7
You are my hiding place;
    you will protect me from trouble
    and surround me with songs of deliverance.

8
I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go;
    I will counsel you with my loving eye on you.

Tony Crisp

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2884
    • View Profile
    • Dreamhawk.com
Re: felt like reading a poem... and here a dream again
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2017, 10:46:11 AM »
And you forgave
    the guilt of my sin.

I too was moved by the words you made bold. It is our own guilt and anger that I feel forgiveness works on.

I don't know why, but I wanted to quote a part of http://dreamhawk.com/inner-life/big-bang-and-god-are-the-same/ -

Out of this aloneness, this great consciousness had longed that other beings might exist. But in its present form this was impossible. Then I understood something that tore my heart to pieces, as it still does today when I dwell on the memory of the experience. This being purposefully went about destroying itself so that our present universe – we – might have existence. It was such a wondrous action for it was done in such a way, with such skill, with such love and self-sacrifice, such art and science, that its very death was a magnificent creative act. In other words its death struck into action forces and effects that created the universe in all its variety. This death is what we know as the ‘big bang’. The very special circumstances of the ‘death’ set in motion the forces that brought about a very particular universe. Without the particular influences set in motion there could easily have been a universe without any ‘space’ for individual awareness. It could have been a universe where everything was purely automated. It could have been many things.

As I experienced this, I realised that everything that exists is a part of that wondrous being. There is nothing that is not of its love. So that whatever arises in the universe arises out of, and as, THAT. The human sense of God is a realisation of the very substance of our own existence. The awe we might feel is from an intuition of what has been given us as our own being.

And as that great unity of energy and consciousness died, its very last impulse was for those new beings that might arise from its death. The impulse that flashed out we call love. It flashed through the universe permeating its every particle, in a way that we cannot yet perceive, but which is like a touch upon the pulsating chaotic movements of particles and lives.

We are the seeds of that love. We are God. And in our small portion of the universe, we face a particular lesson through the shortness of our bodily lives. We face death. Yet that is the greatest of things. For that is the heart of everything, the very act of love out of which our lives have been formed. If we discover the secret of that, we discover our creator and eternal nature.


Monica

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: felt like reading a poem... and here a dream again
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2017, 02:56:54 PM »
Yes, love is the realisation of all! (And reaching that understanding, making it part of our lives, is the biggest goal).
And the image of God as the Big-Bang is just so wonderful! Those words are incredible, now I'm speechless.  :-X :)