Mendependence Day

[Aristocrates]

"When I was a young boy I lived in London, and in Soho the prostitutes were all standing in the street offering themselves to the men who were almost queuing up with their wages in their hands. I felt at the time that I would never be at the mercy of women. Of course it was a very crazy idea, but I was young."

I retrieved this passage from a discussion you were having with Christine.  Do you really believe that was a crazy idea?  Personally, I don't believe it is.  Also, in the situation you describe, while the men are at the mercy of the women sexually aren't the women at the mercy of the men financially?  Women are being exploited for sex and men for money: a mutual exploitation.  In ways I have more respect for a prostitute than a wife.  Prostitute's are far less greedy. A wife gains half of a man's wealth simply by virtue of being his wife.  So while the transaction between the prostitute and man is mutually exploitative marriage is most definitely not.  Part of a woman's role as wife is prostitute though it is taboo to talk about in most circles.  Historically, marriage is a matter of business.  It used to be that marriage was for the business of men but somehow, through the centuries, marriage has managed to be morphed into an something that favors women much more heavily.

I found this article: explains things better....
http://www.mokita.com/system.htm

[Christine]

Hi A,

Very timely to see this post today.

I think a lot of men and women are not conscious of their complicity in the internal and external bargaining that exists in most marriages.  I certainly was not when I was married.  Now I am divorced and with someone.  Neither of us will marry whether we stay together or not.  We intend on keeping a me, you and we (a threesome).....instead of just having one "we."

I hated being a wife and yes sometimes I used my husband financially to try and compensate somehow.  I think a lot of women do that.

I think that marriage is mostly for the benefit of the governments and possibly the churches.

It will be good to read your further posts on this topic and see what others have to say.

Happy New Year A!

Christine

[Tony Crisp]

Exactly - That was why I say it was a crazy idea. because I was seeing it from only one viewpoint. The older I get it seems to get even more complex and complicit.

My views on marriage are very strange indeed. But I believe there is a saying - 'Let no man divide what God has joined together'. I may have quoted it wrong, but there is no mention of any church or officials doing the joining. It is one person joining to another through the spirit that moved them, and if that joining fails it is their doing. Although in my view that once joined even if you part, you are always joined in the inner worlds. After death or even if we find the core of ourselves, we find that we are in fact joined to everything and everyone.

Tony

[amIcrazy]

I agree with what you have wrote and would like to add that women are now preying on men's weakness of our sole purpose biologically  on this planet are to spread and diversify our genes. What really gets to me is nowadays women make as much if not more than some men and still expect to be courted, wined and dined or even, its expected for the man to buy the alcohol beverage in order to converse with a woman in a social environment. When the entire gesture had become from the time when woman didn't have the same rights as men or didn't make as much as men. I'm not trying to be cheap I'm saying is that I feel that some woman need not take advantage of this chivalrous act as often as they should and maybe start considering doing a little courting of their own.

[Rain_Dancer]

My experience with courting men is that it makes them lazy and infantile - it make them regress rather than grow and develop.
It is a childish fantasy, for the most part, to have a woman do the courting.  The reality of it doesn't hold up.
If a man is courting to GET something from a woman, then it will be exhausting, frustrating, futile and painful.
When a man courts a woman for the pleasure of courting, and for the pleasure of her company, the pleasure of the experience, the pleasure of simply being with a woman,
then he enjoys the process, enjoys being a man, enjoys life.

Unless a man is more inclined to be feminine and embraces that, a man will tend to resist (usually unconsciously) because he sees her as "mother" and doesn't really want to date or be married to his mother.

AMICRAZY, the tone of your post suggests to me some deep hurts around feeling rejected and unworthy.
Take care of those, and be with women for the pleasure of being with a woman rather than trying to get your needs met, and you will see the male/female dynamic differently, from a more empowered, holistic perspective.

[amIcrazy]

In defense, I'm afraid you focused more on the latter part of my opinion and missed the part of where I stated that SOME women take advantage of this weakness. I have no problem with the act of courting. Just feel that its being taken advantage of by women that have no interest in being persued. Which Ive seen and heard come from a woman's actions and mouth first hand, that they simply use it as a means of a free meal or an easy way of not having to pay to get drunk. Or even to the extent that I would have to "Let me hold 40 dollars." for simple companionship.  This I feel is more commen amongst the younger generation of women which most don't appreciate the value of a chivalrous man due to the way society/media glorifies the bad boy attitude. Most often leaving a woman pregnant and with a pen pal for several years.