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Author Topic: (I'm not that one of your dream) a repeated denial  (Read 5890 times)

Monica

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(I'm not that one of your dream) a repeated denial
« on: April 03, 2018, 12:49:47 AM »
hi there!
There's a certain phrase that for some time reached the weight of a sentence in my life, when this boy told me -he thought I was misjudging and making assumptions about him because of some confidences he told to me- a very loaded and prejudiced: "I'm not that one of your dreams!" (I had also confided him my thoughts and dreams about "us"); and curiously he repeated this at least a couple of times again, when he felt accused. As Tony points out on many posts and answers, of course it's almost obvious when we talk about a dream we aren't assuming -or at least we don't do it on purpose- that we can somewhat foretell what a person would do, even worse their hidden agendas. But for some reason this person began to feel kind of menaced with the possibility of being exposed by the things revealed when we talked about our dreams, even though I wasn't by any means attempting to predict neither his behaviour nor the future, which was absurd and unreasonable he could be dubious about (it was far easier for me to go and ask in real life to the people who knew him and I could have guessed a lot more; that was the strange thing about the paranoia he displayed). It reached the point of serious confrontations and he finally went away when things became monstruous in reality (things he couldn't explain but made evident he was hiding injurious stuff), saying he was scared (of things he had done first, using them at the beginning of the relationship to approach me and to get my confidence). So I'm persisting on referring to this because I've been trying to find peace about the issue, and some days ago you interpreted a dream in a way that showed me that maybe there was a reason for this boy to feel uneasy after all, because of course not mine, but his own dreams had been telling a lot about what was him all about. I mean, now I know a dream can clearly say a lot about a person, and he didn't take them so seriously until it came the day he saw maybe he had told "too much". And it nevertheless should be unvelied if there's something to taking notice of. So here's a second and final dream he told and I'm extremely interested on it because it seems to have revealed long before things happened, the way he was dealing with some issues he never wanted to talk about when he left. If you could please give me a hand with this, It'd be awesome!

"Fishing (GREEN)
September 15

It involved a beach, a harbor, maybe it was one of those cities crossed by a river, like Manhattan, maybe. It's like a competition under the Brooklyn bridge, a race without a cause. There are two boats in the water trying to catch a huge fish. Two strong sailors, conventional, the Popeye type of heavy hand are in one of the boats. In the other it was me with a faceless female companion, that kept unknown the whole time; everything pointed out that I had a relationship with her, or that was what I understood. The contest started. The fish was so strong that tugged both of the boats, it was a real Hercules, the Jack LaLanne of fishes. Nature imposed itself; the fish had gripped the two baits and was carrying us at its mercy, it was almost nothing what anyone could do facing the colossal animal.
The girl tried to harpooning it while the men in the other boat tried to shoot it, but any attempt was in vain, nothing and no one could resist it. When all of us had given up and the only thing left was to waiting for the worse to come, the incredible speed with which the fish had driven us until then began to gradually diminishing. The fish was getting slowly exhausted and eventually it seemet not having any direction at all. We, also tired, let ourselves be drifted away with no resistance by the fish'es weird behaviour. We didn't know what had happened but the beast ended up crashing against a dock. Everyone got off the boats, to picking up the fish, we all wanted to know what kind of animal had defeated all of our efforts. I myself brought it out the water and we were all surprised by seeing it wasn't as monstrous as we had thought. It was an ordinary fish, a tuna, it was big yes, but not huge as it seemed. All of us were somewhat disappointed, some way we wanted to think it could possibly be a fish the size of a whale or so. I had already gotten back into my boat and everyone was getting ready to depart from there, to try their luck some other place, with no remorses, when one of them noticed that the animal still moved its eyes, only the eyes. It looked scared and about to die, or maybe just confused and bewildered by the blow. All of them watched at it with disdain, with no emotion at all, without feeling a bit moved by those eyes looking around trying to find some answer to its cruel situation. I left the boat and cut its tail with a big knife. Not showing any sign of pain, without a feeling of being attacked on it, I kept  slaughtering the fish, drunk with a sudden delirium, by the bliss of seeing that body being divided into big slices. The fish didn't seem conscious of what was going on, its eyes weren't altered facing the butchery, they just stared above, to that greyish sky, dirty blue as of a laundry room, no sun, just clouds, only smooth clouds surrounding us to the horizon. That was the colour of anything, our clothes, the boats, our faces, the water, the city, the harbor. The only thing that seemed to have a life there were those startled eyes, those eyes that were slowly extinguishing. In the end the reason for such ravage was sharing, so no one said a thing while I did it, all of them seemed to be at one with the necessary act of violence I was commiting. The slices were distributed, the head was thrown into the water, with its yet unquiet eyes, we shook hands, and the day went on, nearing its end. The girl and I entered a door across the harbor where we striked. It was a sort of infirmary, a rare hospital ward with no patients, not any waiting. Two nurses attended us inmediately: she was taken to a common surgery, nothing to remark, and it was then when I saw her for the last time, that woman with whom I had no connection at all. I kissed her goodbye, the door closed after her and I went walking escorted by the other nurse to another surgery. The place had the appearance of a minimalist maze, with vast corridors which seemed not having an end and pale greenish walls that didn't reach a ceiling to their height, everything got lost up there in an odd dimness. After a long walk through an aisle with a huge picture window which allowed the grey light of day in, we arrived to a closed room, lit by a yellow bulb that permeated the room with an even more unpleasant green. The nurse asked me the routine questions and some others in relation to a trip; apparently we were undergoing some health control tests so they could be sure we wouldn't travel with some rare disease. In a moment all seemed to be darkening, the light bulb dimmed its energy in a to-ing and fro-ing of electricity, and the nurse asked me to get up and to standing in front of the stretcher. Yes, a prostate examination, painless, impersonal as it may be. The nurse concluded it and I went out from there, with no sensation of humanity at all, neither the feeling of a breaching, not any suggestion of corporality. I went back by the picture window's aisle and everything was tainted by that green. Outside there was a beacon which beamed a white light amid a night still not fully dark; a dusk seeped of a green light. Green only. Everything green.
 
the  windEste
Opening (eatingmyfingers)
September 25

This is the video, one of my late childhood memories; now, in recalling this, I remember it was such the horror that game made me feel that the only thing that could soothe my phobia was praying until I fell asleep. And the more my brother played that game the more I prayed. Oddly enough, even though I had a fatal panic everytime he came and turned the game on, at the same time I wanted to see, I eagerly wished to be frightened. Ha! some time after that it followed the women clippings. How crazy. Now I see it somewhat ridiculous, that japanese terror that turns out to be a bit naive, but nevertheless carries me away to a lot of moments from the past... Now I understand why in my dreams characters look so digital. Sometimes so false that they are disconcerting. And it comes to mind the yesterday's dream, this time in that short form of a nightmare: I was eating my fingers, cutting them with my teeth and furiously tearing them off from my hands, barely to the distal phalanx, with the insane hope of having them grown again, renewed. In a moment the dream came into conflict with reality, as if it was getting very close to an experiential notion that caused me to believe the thing taking place in that world was transferring from that dimension into this. I checked my fingers out carefully when I woke up and I kept repeating to myself: NO, fingers can't grow back.

Yes, this dream I had last night. And mother has just told me the one she had: she said that my brother arrived and touched her back and she, somewhat frightened, and also annoyed, said to him: Hey, don't scare me Lin, you are dead. We laughed about it, I don't know why, because it was a dream I suppose, nothing else. And she pointed out to this picture I have in my room, and said that was the way he touched her, as in this image:"

 :-X

Tony Crisp

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Re: (I'm not that one of your dream) a repeated denial
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2018, 10:44:36 AM »
Monica – The fishing green dream shows an enormous struggle between yourself – in various dream forms – and the natural force of unconscious Life within you. In a previous dream you had I wrote in response, “I see it not as a spiritual battle, but as a battle to prevent you from realising something maybe about death.”

In the New Testament it says, “… casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. And he said unto them, ‘Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men’. 20 And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.”

You were in a boat under a bridge; a boat is the thing that keeps you afloat in a different element than you are used to. As such it depicts the attitudes that enable you to have a clear boundary and certainty of who you are. It is your confidence and the threshold that separates your waking self from the massive and deep unconscious – the ocean of collective awareness. The fish is the wonder of the enormous Life that exists beneath the surface of our waking life. The bridge is the way we can move from one way of life to another.

Of course the fish was strong, for we are weak when meeting the Life which is behind every ones existence. So we are too when meeting death. I remember seeing a film of a powerful man and a child enter a great church; they fell down on their knees, not as a ritual act, but because they were in the presence of the Great Mystery that is Life, given to all of us.

You brought that fish out of the water, and without thanks, or feelings of wonder you cut it in pieces – I don’t know why – for it was Life and it watched you.

You were then examined and were in a dim state of awareness, not fully dark; dusk seeped of a green light; so even now the promise of growth.

At the end your mother was touched by death, and she was frightened. Why? If you/she knew Life, then she/you would also know the beauty of Death – the Naked Beauty.

“I had another death experience when I was at Cortijo Romero in Spain, and again I was leading a group and they supported me while I took a turn in explore my depths, and I saw death and it had a lovely face.  It was the face of everybody I knew and everybody that I loved.  It was naked, naked beauty I called it.  And this was what life was, naked beauty, and that’s what death is, stripped away of everything, and that’s where our beauty is.  And I was so sorry that I forget it so often.  To remember that naked beauty (Tony is in tears at this point). It’s a strange something that I can feel alive in me.” 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 09:47:53 AM by Tony Crisp »

Monica

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Re: (I'm not that one of your dream) a repeated denial
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2018, 11:36:40 PM »
Awesome!

I've reread several of your posts (specially that one of being the thing or person in your dream which is the one I feel could try going further on and on) and took a peek into your biography, and it gets more fascinating every time! Also I've been revisiting the dreams I had written, mine and other people's dreams that were important to me someday in life.

Again this time I was telling the dream of another person, the same boy of the dinosaur dream. He told me just these three or four dreams and to me they made a vivid but also cryptic profile of his deeper self; that is the reason I'm still so interested on reading and getting to the point on them. And again you've presented me with a picture of the person he so stubbornly hid from me all the time; I think, because of the facts I've gathered throughout time, and the impresions that some conversations, therapy and your gentle answers have given to me, that he felt there was an important potential in the relationship, but there were things that he wanted to keep untouched in his life and he wasn't ready to give up (ever). And what keeps ME wondering about the dreams he told to me is that it seems so obvious we both were sharing a great opportunity to grow and getting to the core of some important realizations in life and he was so afraid of it... So afraid as to say "I'm not that one of your dreams" when I tried to tell him that those images reflected how important he was for me, not how much I pretended to know him or want from him.

As you say, there's an evident struggle, and I'd say yeah, for the time we were together I thought we shared that struggle, so it maybe gave him the chills when I showed myself so immersed and devoted on sharing and understanding every little thing having to do with him, his familiar situations, his ideas and creative processes, his shaming secrets, his dreams. When we ended up going to therapy after some really ugly issues he finally took on a defensive attitude and he never moved from there (It was a shame the therapist didn't seem to have a clue about personality disorders and seemed to be siding with him because he decided I was just crazy and trying to scare him to death -don't know if he really thought a disease or pregnancy can be schemed motives to ruin another's life-). And I don't think -as the therapist said trying to reconcile- it was a simple matter of maturity; I know there was a lot more going on in the heart and head of this person, to just run away the way he did after I got an illness clearly caused by our interaction and the overwhelming and seemingly endless consequences coming after that, which spoiled not just our mental health but general wellbeing (and I thought he felt the same, that both of us were suffering). It was all confusing to me because he first acted as a really responsible and trustworthy man, taking care of me and always "there", but as much as the disease began to raise uncomfortable questions and made it almost a compelling thing coming to terms with what was the relationship all about, he began to act distant and tried to make me think I was the one that was pulling away, because I was supposedly accusing him of things that he said didn't existed -including a disease that was confirmed by doctors and medical exams- and eventually of trying to make him responsible for my problems and a relationship he didn't fostered for real.

I remember he had admitted he had been stalking me before everything started, but I didn't feel frightened at all; I was faithful to the thing that made me feel I could trust him in the first place, a deep feeling of sharing with a sensitive and open person. Now I could just say he was playing with me, but the mind games were just one facet of a very intricate plot of situations, confusions, not dealt with frustrations on his part -all of them "my fault" when he had to speak up, a thing that he "spared me" from getting most of the time, because after the first explosion of affection and interest after shortly he began to act as a very impassive, awfully insensitive person. So the thing became an absurd game about myself "and my fantasies", apparently all me and myself obsessed with this phantom character he nevertheless also played earnestly causing me to appear as a helpless and hideous neurotic. So coming back to the dream I describe, the root of this game he had been encouraging with his actions I feel is portrayed on those female characters he describes as "faceless- ever unknown -having no connection with". I ask myself about that because the girl in the dream shares all the adventure with him, but as time passes they grow relentlessly apart. He says at first he 'understands' they have a relationship, they are together but he doesn't recognize her and as the trip reaches its end he -even kissing her goodbye- doesn't have any feelings about her (though he doesn't make anything about it, he just lets the nurses take care of it, finally getting her away from him). I feel this was shockingly similar to what he did in real life. And yes, as you point out about the killing of the fish, -¿Why if he's face to face with the power of Life he just slaughters it, with no thankfulness, no feelings of awe?-  (Why, if SHE was watching him?)

I should admit it's yet disturbing to me, not because I feel afraid as he said he did, not even confused any more, but because I don't get how someone can be so apart from himself, from his own feelings and desires. Also for a long time I thought the fish depicted in his dream was me, I felt so terribly wounded by the things he did that it was an image that fitted perfectly with the situation. About the illness, I praise God after a long period of uncertainty I must say I -miraculously- overcame that, I WAS healed; but there is medical proof that I had acquired a disease from him; that's why I say it was a miracle, because it happened, but it's no longer there. I need to say the ugly thing for me wasn't the health stuff, which can happen to anyone and is a shared responsibility; the really awful thing was the way he dealed with it; first, trying the smokescreen -a proof he knew he was guilty of something we wouldn't admit-, and when I confronted him (not even doubting, but trying to get some honesty from him) saying openly he didn't want the relationship anymore, because it hadn't been HIS desire from the start, so he had the right to discard me like trash (it was the only reason he ever gave). It kept haunting and hurtful for a long time, but again thanks God, it didn't ruin my self love and my trust. Of course I felt I hated him for long, but I worked really hard to bring peace to this, and after a long "detox" period (full of hard and ugly feelings and not very sane stuff, I won't ever deny) I felt the only thing I needed was compassion, loving understanding about him, about everyone in this world. Sometimes the memories bring about sadness, but I think it's o.k., I won't force any thing in my life to be the way I think it must be. I do believe in the power of Love that brings the best for all who are ready to yield!

"You brought that fish out of the water, and without thanks, or feelings of wonder you cut it in pieces – I don’t know why – for it was Life and it watched you." Yes, I ask myself the same. It's so the way he showed himself after our "outbreak". I think this dream is interesting because it's accurate on describing something like the dislocated feeling that results from not being able to embrace and accept the natural forces' power, the vision of the whole that abridges all of what can be desired and attained through Life, and for that reason looks overwhelming, menacing, huge. (The not-whole male, female issues...) Why such disharmony in his quest? (even though the opportunity to grow never died?) He didn't seem to ever notice what you say, that "naked truth" that is beautiful and wondrous, so we can fall on our knees and humble ourselves to take a glimpse at. I think that's the real wonder of any relationship, any image, any thing we share... knowing one day we'll see the face of Love on it...Yeah, I'm also so sorry that we forget so often!

Tony Crisp

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Re: (I'm not that one of your dream) a repeated denial
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2018, 10:19:28 AM »
Monica - You wrote that, "I took a peek into your biography, and it gets more fascinating every time!"

Well you have been telling us a lot about you - thanks.

Tony

Monica

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Re: (I'm not that one of your dream) a repeated denial
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2018, 05:42:46 PM »

(blushing face) Yes, some people say I'm excesive... That's why I really THANK you, having this site to share so freely, and the gift of your time and all is a  real gift for people like me!

About your bio, I'm impressed and also very interested in various topics, and the one that caught my attention was the book "yield"; I'd like to know how can I get it, is it available in online stores? That was the best part of the "access denied" thing that happened when I tried to post some weeks ago, I stumbled upon this! Amazing! Everytime I find something interesting and stimulating reading into your site.

I've had lots of replenishing dreams surrounding grandma's health difficulties and demise, my family and me. But today I dreamed a conclussion for one that was persistent since some months ago: I'd told about a dream where a table was served as in a feast. Then I dreamed I was offered three types of drinks, champagne, milk and wine, but for some reason I was predisposed and ended up not chosing any. Yesterday after the morning prayer I got asleep and as an "answer" for some troubled thoughts I was given a glass of milk, which I began to drink, then woke up (This after a very calm and lovingly dream with the females of this home and the birds I've told also about, wading birds all white in a river or a flooded field with very clear waters along with us). And today I dreamed of a sort of meeting in an academic environment, not church or social as first, and after some talking with fellow students I was given a glass full of wine, very red; I was about to leave because I had work to do and was there just to talk to them about some project or event we had in common, but finally I received the wine and drank the full glass, thinking with some humor how bad I am on drinking alcohol, but at complete ease. I think is curious the mixing up of this reunions and the very bright and peaceful fragments in natural surroundings of all of these months, when I've dealt mainly with family, church, and the caring and now missing of grandma. I'd like to say lots and lots and lots more but that's more about the "fairy tale" issue so present throughout my life, and I know it's getting excesive now so I'll stop!  :o

Thank you very much for your patience and wisdom, be blessed!


Tony Crisp

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Re: (I'm not that one of your dream) a repeated denial
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2018, 09:55:04 AM »
Monica - Yield is on its way to you.

It is a theme I love to explore, and I never get tired of writing about it in different ways. Christian Yoga is another attempt.

Tony

Monica

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Re: (I'm not that one of your dream) a repeated denial
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2018, 08:39:21 PM »
 :)

Dear Tony-
In the precious Name of Jesus I thank you!
What a wonderful gift!

(In the spirit I'll try to make the best use of it, I bless again your generosity and this space you share with everyone, Thanks.)

Tony Crisp

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Re: (I'm not that one of your dream) a repeated denial
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 12:29:22 PM »
I feel that we often forget we are an amazing family, all joined by the sharing of Life.

Tony