Interview with a Sex Worker
What do you think was the beginning or background to your becoming a sex worker?
Sometimes things like this start when you are very young. I was a very chubby kid and was taunted about that. Also, it wasn’t that I was taunted by the adults in my life, my friends and relations, but they reminded me constantly that if I got fat when I was older than I would never find a husband. I was told again and again that I would then be on my own for the rest of my life.
So, I suppose it in a way those things started me off in the belief that I wasn’t attractive, and I wouldn’t find anybody who would want to be with me. So this led to feeling that I was physically repulsive. Then as I matured sexually I felt sure I was not attractive to the men I found appealing.
Then, I did marry quite early. It is mostly because I found someone who seemed to want to be with me. Then after all those years of being with my husband, who actually didn’t find me attractive, and never said anything or made any suggestion to indicate he found me attractive, I believed I wasn’t good enough. The things he did say indicated that I was the lucky one to be with him. He led me to feel the he was doing me a favour and nobody else was going to come along who would want to be with me.
I guess that was why I married him, because I felt, “Oh my god, he’s willing to marry me.” I felt that perhaps I could do worse, so, married him. Then he told me later that he didn’t love me and he wished he hadn’t married me.
None of that made me feel very good, but then I was stuck with him for 10 years. At the time I thought, because I have slightly old fashioned views about marriage, that we were together until death do us part.
So, what was it like being with him for those years?
Well, my sex life with him was just that – sex life. There was no love life.
What would you say the difference is?
Well, he would fuck me, until he was satisfied. He had no regard for what gave me pleasure sexually. He just wanted to fuck.
What do you mean by that?
He wanted to get his dick inside me as quickly as possible and then fuck away until he came. He didn’t want to please me. He didn’t want to caress or cuddle me. I used to try to guide him as to what I liked and what I didn’t like. I gave very obvious signals to say, “Yes, this is what I like,” and yet he still reverted back to doing the things I didn’t like.
For instance, the instant I would jump into bed, after a busy, busy day, he would leap in and grab my tits, as if that was an immediate turn on for me.
That just did not turn me on. But in his head my tits, my nipples, were “on” buttons. You know, give them a squeeze and she will immediately be turned on. That was how ignorant I thought he was when he came to sex or love making.
In fact, there was no love making in our marriage.
So, to cut a long story short, that went on for many years. At that time I felt like a zombie. I mean, during the time we were having sex. I wasn’t getting what I wanted, but I felt like I was doing my wifely duty. He said sometimes, “It’s my right.”
When I finally left him, I left believing I would never ever have sex again with anybody. That was a big decision to make, because I was only 29. But, the reason I had that belief was because of all the things leading up to it. You know, the business about nobody finding me attractive. I mean, I was a big girl. I did get quite large. Having been told over and over again I was fat, I believed it. In fact, I did get really fat because I lived up to all the nonsense people were telling me. So after I left him, I believed I would never ever be with anybody again. Also, I find it difficult to have real sex with anybody I am not in love with.
But, actually, it didn’t take long for me to realise that was a load of bollocks. I went travelling for a few months after the break, and that was a really, really liberating experience. I discovered that while I was having fun and away from work, from all those boundaries and restrictions, from him and his family, there were lots of guys who found me attractive.
Because I was in holiday mode, there was always glorious sunshine, and the scenery was wonderful, it was quite romantic. So I was feeling good about myself as well, and I actually shagged about a bit. I was careful with protection and all that, but it was so liberating. I realised that I am attractive. So that’s true, it was a really good experience. Then, for the next several months, or maybe for several years, I settled back into normal life and working. So I guess I went through my teenage years in my early 30′s, in as much as that was when I discovered alcohol for the first time, and learned to enjoy going out and letting my hair down a bit. Until that point I had been a little bit up tight. Being that free really helped me. I have alcohol to thank for that because it helped me be able to let go. I know some people can do that without a crutch like alcohol, but for me it is really helpful. I really thank alcohol for that.
So I really went a bit mad in my early thirties, raving, recreational drugs, getting drunk, in some ways being a revolting teenager.
I felt as if I needed to do it. I couldn’t bear the thought now, but at the time, every time I attracted a different male it helped me feel good about myself. It felt like one more notch – not in terms of achievement, I shagged one more man – but in the sense that it was one more person who found me attractive enough to sleep with me.
But that soon wore off, and I realised that as far as it giving me happiness was concerned it was just a physical thing. But one day I was working and it was a quiet day – I was working as a receptionist at the time, and the woman I was working for came out and sat at the desk where I was. We started chatting, and saying things like, wouldn’t it be great if we had enough money to do this or live there. We became easy with each other, and I said to her that yes of course I would love to have earned lots of money.
What was your financial situation at the time?
Well, it was okay. I was still working. But it wasn’t brilliant. Things hadn’t been fantastic though, after I split up with my husband. I realised after he had gone that he had been squirreling money away without me knowing. But I didn’t have savings or anything.
Then she said something strange to me. She said, “Well, you know, you are sitting on a goldmine.”
I thought, what on earth is she talking about? I looked down at the decrepit funny old chair I was sitting on wondering if she somehow meant that. I stood up and looked because I was so confused. So I said to her, “What do you mean I’m sitting on a goldmine?”
She said, “It’s not the chair and you silly tart. I am talking about your minge you idiot.”
At the time I didn’t know what the word minge was. So I asked her, or she said, “It’s your fanny girl.”
I was so innocent in many ways about things like that I had to ask her to explain. And she said to me, “Don’t you see, you could be on the game earning money from having sex. It’s what you’re doing anyway, and you might as well get paid for it.”
My response was to say to her, “Yeah, right! Someone like me, a bit frumpy and dumpy. Who’s going to want to pay me for sex? I couldn’t do that anyway. Surely you have to be a gorgeous looking woman. You know, tall, slim, blonde.”
She just laughed and said, “Are you joking? Have you really looked around on the Internet, and looked at the magazines? Some of those women are absolutely disgusting. They are gross. If they can do it, you can definitely do it.”
My first response was to feel there was no way I could ever do anything like that. But, strangely enough, I was also kind of fascinated. And, as it turned out, 20 years earlier she had been on the game. At the time I didn’t know what that expression meant but she explained that it meant selling sex. She had done quite well from it financially and so could explain to me how to go about it. She knew the ropes, so we had lots of fascinating conversations.
Then, one day she made a suggestion, she told me that she had a little flat in London that she didn’t use and suggested that she and I do it up and then place an ad to see what happened. So, being a little bit inquisitive, adventurous, and wanting to try something different I decided to go along with it.
That’s what we did. We spent a lot of time and effort doing up the room like a parlour, with all beautiful lighting and decor. We furnished it nicely as well, and it really looked stunning. It wasn’t some sleazy little hovel, we made it look really high class.
Then we placed an ad in a magazine and waited to see what would happen. Obviously I changed my name, and the woman who was encouraging me said she didn’t want to do it herself, but she would answer the phone and arrange things for me.
I didn’t know the lingo, and apparently when people ring there are certain things they ask, or words they use which are part of that scene. Those words are used because there are certain things they wouldn’t openly say over the telephone. So she dealt with all that and described me to the men enquiring. She would tell them what I would be wearing, then she would get them to come to the phone box across the road so that we could see from our window. We could look out and I could decide if I was ready to have sex with them. Also we could see if they were really coming along and not simply wasting our time.
That was a very interesting time. I went along with it and got glamed up so I was looking very glamorous. I had really lovely clothes, my hair all up, with beautiful earrings – it was all very, very interesting. I met some amazing characters. Some of the people maybe only came to see me once; some came more than once, and some came on a regular basis.
I didn’t do it full time. It was about once a week, or once a fortnight depending upon how often I felt like doing it. But I got a few regulars, and that suited me really nicely, because I got to know them. I got to know what they liked and what they didn’t life. And if there was somebody I didn’t like because they were smelly, or if they had dirty fingernails, I didn’t have to see them. I chose to do what I wanted to do. I didn’t feel pressured to doing anybody if I didn’t want to. I didn’t want somebody touching me if they were unclean. I was really fussy.
What was it like with your first client? Was it like having sex with somebody who wasn’t paying?
Well, what I learned about myself at that time, was that all the years I was with my husband, who was just fucking me, I had learned to switch off the emotional side of things. So in seeing my clients I realised that I was easily able to do that. So I didn’t find it difficult at all. I found it really easy.
Also, because I like people, and because I like to please people and to help people feel good about themselves I found that the people I was seeing were really keen to come back and see me again. They could see I was interested in giving them what they wanted. That wasn’t necessarily always about sex.
Some of the guys didn’t want sex. They wanted to lie down with a lady and just hold me. All they sometimes wanted was a cuddle. I found that really very moving, because this whole thing about men only thinking about sex, and having a one track mind, I didn’t find to be true. I think that’s kind of a sad stereotype. I discovered that it isn’t true, and some men don’t act like that, and because they are single they have a need to be held, and to be touched. Sometimes they want to be caressed and to be treated like they are lovable.
Or sometimes, if they are an older person and can’t get an erection, they still have a need for the human touch. I loved it when people like that came to me. They would openly say to me, that they love the way I made them feel special, or that I was pleased to see them. In some cases they said it was just a wonderful thing to lie down with me, relax and have a conversation. They loved to feel the warmth of my body against them. For me, that really was very nice.
Perhaps this is just my opinion, or maybe it’s something I heard, but some people in the sex industry say they have rules such as no touching, no kissing, but it sounds as if you were ready to be touched or to touch them. I have the impression, from what I have heard, that the client must not touch or interact with the woman apart from the genitals. So they would perhaps be masturbated, or have oral sex, or plain straightforward sex. Is that right?
I think everybody sets their own rules. I certainly had some ground rules as well. I wasn’t going to kiss anybody. To me, that was way to personal, way too intimate. You don’t know where those people have been. I don’t want to catch anybody else’s germs. So I wasn’t kissing those men, and I didn’t want anybody going down on me either. It was always, always with condoms. Some guys would be ready to pay double to have sex without a condom. My feeling was, “You must be joking mate! Not on your life!”
Okay, so it’s interesting what you have said about your background, about feeling unattractive, so, before I ask anything else, what did you get from being in the sex industry?
It’s unbelievable really. I was apprehensive beforehand as to whether I would be good enough, or whether they would find me attractive. They might look at me and walk out the room. I spoke to a couple of my best friends before I did it, and they said to me, “Girl, you don’t have much of an opinion of yourself, and this could be really damaging to your morale and you’re emerging self.” And I just felt well, my gut instinct is telling me to do it, and I did it.
I think, in that respect, it was the best thing I have ever done. I couldn’t believe how confident I felt, and how many guys found me really very physically attractive. And I was plump. But, not everybody likes skinny women. I hadn’t realised that. Some guys like really large women. In fact some guys like older women. So it really made a big difference, and I am really pleased I did it.
Strangely enough, I felt really confident. It’s weird, but I feel more confident when I am having sex with guys in that capacity, than I do when I’m with somebody I really fancy. I still feel very self conscious physically, and yet I didn’t when I was working.
You did say that you shut down your feelings in a paid relationship and in your marriage. Has that got anything to do with it?
Possibly, because I didn’t need to impress those people. If they don’t want to come back again they don’t have to, and I am not trying to attract them.
But, I went on to work for an agency. Working for the agency was similar, and that really was good for my confidence. In the agency there was myself and another girl, and she was probably half my age. She was tall, and slim, and blonde, and absolutely gorgeous. I thought to myself when I saw her, “Oh my god what am I doing here? They are all going to want to see her, and I am going to feel like the frump.”
Then one day a young guy came, and I suppose he was about thirty, or maybe mid twenties, and after seeing us he chose to see her. I felt quite relieved in a certain way that he wanted to see her. I didn’t think I would be able to satisfy a much younger guy.
Actually, I’ve just remembered, he asked for me to join. He actually asked for a double. I thought, oh my god, I’ve never done a double before. I didn’t know what, exactly, I was supposed to do. I didn’t even know really what it meant. I guessed that he wanted us both at the same time. It shocked me into worries about what I looked like. I felt that he would see that my tits were all saggy, and that I had got cellulite on my thighs. I have never felt like such a fool.
Anyway, this young guy had a problem getting an erection. He couldn’t get any response. It wasn’t just because of being with us, it was a general thing in his everyday life. But in realising this and seeing his difficulty, I remembered back to when I was shagging about in London, when I was with a guy who was a diabetic, and couldn’t get an erection. Yet I was still able to bring him to orgasm. So I thought I would do whatever I could to help this guy.
This gorgeous young thing was doing what she did, but I could see she wasn’t putting anything into it. It was all very mechanical. You know, his dick was in her hand, and she was trying to jerk him off, but nothing was happening. He was just like a limp sausage. Then he asked for me to take over, so I put a condom on him, a lovely fruity one, and gave him some oral stimulation, and I think some hand relief, and actually, he ejaculated. So he got pleasure even though he didn’t manage a hard on. He was delighted.
That left me feeling really good, because I was able to give him something. For me sex isn’t just a physical thing, it was also an emotional thing too. So I felt really good. I know for me, it is not just a physical thing. It is so much more than that, and so many guys just don’t realise.
You have said that your sense of yourself changed, but yet you were still uncertain in relationship with somebody you liked or wanted to be with. So being with these other men and realising that you could really give them something satisfying, did that change the way you felt about yourself?
I suppose overall it’s made me more confident. I do know that, at least, I am attractive to men. But sadly, most men that I meet who are physically attracted to me, are not really attracted to me as a person, they simply want a screw. So now I know I can physically attract men, even though I am now in my forties. I seem to attract a lot of younger men, as well as men of all ages. I find that, yes, I can attract men very easily. But I don’t seem to attract men who want to get to know me as a person on a deeper level than just physical.
What does that mean? Okay, I can understand that men might want to just have sex with you, but what do you mean by “getting to know you”? What does that mean in terms of relationship?
Well, it means respecting me for who I am and what I believe in, or what I like to do and what I don’t like to do. It’s about finding out what makes me happy and finding out what makes me tick. Finding out what my interests are, and actually respecting my choices in life and the paths I have taken. I find that I meet guys who are physically attracted to me and want to have a good time, but once they’ve had a good time they move on. Or if I don’t give them that good time sexually, some of them get quite shitty.
So, getting to know you and appreciating you as a person, would mean that whether sex was good or bad, they like being with you as a person.
You said there are things you have learned about yourself – I mean you talked a bit about your early years –but are there things you learned about yourself from being in the sex industry?
Well, I learned that I could quite easily pick up on what was turning on the different guys I met. I easily understood what it was they wanted. For instance, one young guy came to see me, and he was a regular. It was while I was with the agency, so the other girls knew him. He was just the loveliest and sweetest guy, but lacking in confidence. He wasn’t particularly nice looking, and maybe that was why he lacked confidence. But he obviously had a need. He didn’t have a girlfriend, and he had a physical condition that he was really embarrassed about. It was that his balls had lumps on them. They were lumps under the skin, they weren’t growths. They weren’t sores, he just had a very lumpy balls.
He said to me, “Look, I’ve got this problem, and I can absolutely assure you it’s not contagious, it’s not a disease, there is nothing wrong with me. I’ll keep my underpants on if you want me to, and so you don’t have to see me. What the other girls do is for me to keep my pants on and just take my penis out.”
And I just knew that, what he really wanted, was just to be appreciated, and made to feel that he was completely okay and normal, and that there was nothing wrong with him.
So I said to him, don’t be silly, take your pants off. There is nothing wrong with you, what are you on about? He was just a lovely guy and appreciated everything that I did for him, whether it was helping him off with his tee shirt, or just being gentle with him. It wasn’t that I treated him like a child, but he was so grateful that I was appreciating his body, and he touched me in a way that was equally as gentle. He wasn’t groping for my tits, or groping for my clit, as so many clumsy men do. He was touching my back and my shoulders, and appreciating touching a warm woman’s body. And I was doing the same for him. And he had his underpants off and he had his big erection, and I put the condom on, and I got on top of him, and just very slowly, and very gently – not that I had to be gentle at that time – but that was how I was feeling, rather than full on raunchy sex. It seemed to me that what he really wanted was to have a nice slow fuck. And that’s what we did. I could just tell that he needed that more than he needed anything. And that gave me an enormous sense of satisfaction. He virtually had tears in his eyes afterwards. The other girls had just given him hand relief while looking away. With them he had to keep his balls covered up because they looked funny.
Other guys had different things. There was one guy who came to me, and as he was taking his clothes off, he was asking me, “So, how old were you when you first had to go to the doctors for a gynaecological examination?”
At first, I thought, “What is this guy about?” But I realised, okay, so he’s got a bit of a doctor, gynaecological thing, maybe that’s his fantasy. And I met a lot of guys with fantasies, and it was easy to go along with them.
I kind of felt it was a bit thick, but I thought, well if that’s his thing, and he’s paying me, and it’s not doing anybody any harm. So in the case of the gynaecological guy I that’s what I did. I think maybe he also asked me how old I was when I first had my period, and did I have to have an internal examination. He wanted to know how often I had to go for my cervical pap tests, and what was it like. So I explained how I had got undressed, and the doctor put this metal forceps thing in. This conversation was going on as he was actually penetrating me. It was all going on very slowly because he was furiously taking in everything I was telling him as well. What I was saying was the thing that was getting him going. I don’t understand the psychology of that, but in that way it was easy to get him going. Talking in that way helped him to really get into it. Strange!
Early on you were talking about your relationship with your husband, and that was, as you called it, “Just fucking.” You said it didn’t fulfil your needs. So I am wondering, in terms of the fact that you have experienced a lot of men as partners and in the sex trade, what would you say to men to help them understand a woman’s needs?
You have just described quite different types of men, so in general what would you say? What would you say if you go to teach somebody to approach a woman?
Good question! What I see is that with some guys it just comes naturally. They know how to make a woman feel good.
Okay, but what is different between them and somebody who doesn’t have the that understanding naturally?
I believe there are different personality types. There are four different personality types, and one of them is the real relationship person. That type is really interested in what makes people tick, and what gets people going, and what makes people tingle. Those people, I think, or more likely to be the ones to understand how to get a woman aroused. They would be the ones who would probably be the more romantic type. They would know that to turn a woman on, it’s not just about jumping into bed and grabbing her tits, it’s more about the build up to the event. Maybe in the afternoon, or the early evening, and running the hot bubble bath, or some romantic gesture. It could be just a lovely kiss on the neck while she’s cooking or preparing a meal, give her a lovely cuddle or buy her a small gift. Even saying something nice to her, or a kindness, or any sort of gesture that makes her feel special and loved. The guy could even do a chore that she hates so that she knows he loves her.
Then it’s more likely that she is going to be in the mood later on. That is the type of person who is most likely to be interested in how other people tick.
Then there is the type of person who is just very theoretical. They are the, “This is how it is done because I read it in a book” type of person. Those are the types I find very difficult to be with physically, because they’ve got a fixed mind.
It’s like they are thinking, “Step one. Grab her clit and wiggle it a little bit. Then she will probably go ‘Oooo ahhh’ and you stick your dick in.”
I’m not joking! Some guys are literally like that.
Do you remember the last time we met, and I went out with that guy I met at dance? He was exactly like that in bed. No foreplay at all. He didn’t even understand the concept. You know, just get it in! Wow!
So they are the theory types. Maybe they are the real intellectual types, or just the ones who read about how to do something. They read an instruction manual and think they know how to do it. Whereas the other type, the more relationship type, they might be someone who learns from experience.
Then there are the hygiene types. They are like, you know, no touching, because she might be dirty. That is really freaky. And we are not necessarily talking about guys who pay me. I am talking about guys I’ve had sex with in a personal one to one relationship. Can you imagine it –I’m thinking to myself, hang on, you want to put your dick into me yet you don’t want to touch me? How weird can that be? I don’t know how on earth they think they can turn somebody on when they are not even going to touch them.
I get the impression, from the last two types you described, the technical type for instance, the “this is how it is in the book” and the “hygiene” type, there is something missing in their character that the relationship type have.
You have said that they are more into relationships, and are observing of what happens in a relationship, but is that because they are more feeling?
I think so. But obviously, there can be a little bit of combination. I suppose it is pretty narrow minded to say that there are only these types, that type, and another type. There are overlaps, but generally speaking I think it’s the relationship type who are the better lovers. But the others, I think, can learn it if they want to. If somebody wants to know, how to be a good lover, what I would suggest if a guy came to me and said, “Please help me. I have this gorgeous girlfriend and I want to satisfy her, what would you teach me?”
Well I would say, it’s not that cut and dry. You can’t just say, do this, and this, and this. Everybody likes something different. I would probably sit down with him, over two or three hours, and have a really, really personal in depth and intimate conversation about the physical side of sex or love making. I would ask a lot of questions and give a lot of examples. And one of the examples I would give that comes to mind, concerns a guy I was seeing for a while with whom I had an active sex life, that in the end I had knocked on the head, because he just did not get it. He was doing things I didn’t like.
Well, when he was going inside me, somehow he managed to get his fingers round the back of me, and would try to massage my arsehole. I would say to him, “Oh, no, no. Not for me. That’s not my thing.” But he would keep trying to do it, every single time. He would get his fingers round there, and I would pull his hand away, getting really annoyed with him. But he wasn’t listening. He said something about his ex girlfriend really liked that. I said to him that I wasn’t his ex girlfriend. I don’t like that. It’s a turn off for me. It just doesn’t do it for me.
So what you’re saying is that you really have to listen and to watch your partner’s reactions to show you what is happening.
Yes, you’ve got to really listen. I know I make it very plain. I think I make it very obvious when I like something, and try to put more emphasis on what I do like, so they feel good. But if they do something I don’t like I try to just very gently steer them away so they don’t feel put down. And it’s the same with me, if I think I’m doing something that is pleasing to the guy, because other guys have liked it, and they don’t like it and they tell me, I take that on board. At least I think I do. I might get it wrong sometimes, but I do try to take it on board. I couldn’t stand it if they were thinking, “What is she doing, I am not enjoying this.” I would hate that. I don’t want to be considered a bad or inconsiderate lover.
But it does amaze me how many guys simply do not listen. So, number one is, listen to what your partner is telling you in words, or in sounds, or movements. If someone pulls your hand away, don’t keep putting it back.
Going back to my husband, over the seventeen years we were together, I can’t tell you how many times I said to him, groping my tits does not turn me on. It actually turns me off. When I jump into bed after a very busy day, all I want to do is to spend at least a minute just chilling out, melting into the mattress, relaxing, before any action takes place. So, when I jump into bed, and next minute whoomph, my tits are being squeezed and being milked like I’m a cow – I felt like I was a cow. I must have taken his hands away hundreds of times, and said, “Will you please just let me relax, just for a minute. Just hold me for a minute. Give my shoulders a massage, because they are really tight.”
I explained to him that when I am sexually aroused, at that point, yes, I love my breasts to be caressed. It heightens my arousal, it heightens my pleasure. But, if I am just neutral, and not turned on, and my tits are grabbed, it’s a turn off. If there is a sliding scale, and zero is in the middle, and the opposite to arousal is on the left, and arousal is to the right; if I am in the middle and somebody grabs my tits, I swing to the negative arousal. I just want to close up like a clam.
This has happened so many times with so many guys that I think it’s important for guys to understand. I pull their hand away, again and again, and still they go for the tits. So I am much more inclined to pursue a sexual relationship with those who will listen, than with those who don’t.
This is very strange to tell, but when I was married and had “sex” for all those years, we did things in bed that left me feeling used and abused. I felt like I was just being fucked. I felt used as a wife. Yet when I was on the game, doing sex work, I felt much more appreciated, much more respected, and I could do, or not do whatever I wanted. So if somebody wanted to do something I wasn’t prepared to do, I wouldn’t do it. That was because I knew I was my own boss.
So, is what you are talking about connected with an equal relationship between partners? As you said, you felt your husband was just using you.
Yes, and part of the reason for that was that I have never had an orgasm. So, the fact that he was never able to give me an orgasm, in his mind, I think, led him to feeling, “What’s the point in me making an effort. She’s not going to have an orgasm anyway.” I would say to him, yes, but I can still enjoy sex!
I’m not saying that every time we had sex it was absolutely unbearable. There were times when it was really enjoyable. But, he still didn’t really give a shit. As long as he came, that was it. He didn’t really care if I was in mid pleasure stream or what. It just didn’t matter to him. It was all about him and his sexual need.
I just felt so much better about myself as a person on the game, and I never ever once felt used when I was doing sex work. For the first time, I felt like a real woman.
Okay, another question I was interested in is connected with what we talked about in connection with what a man might learn about relating to a woman physically, but we haven’t said so much about the relationship emotionally. You have talked about your sex work and what you were doing physically, but it sounds as if you were also expressing your feelings with them. You were dealing with them at an emotional level from what you say, because you understood their needs and how they felt.
So I wonder what you have learned about men. Not just their sex life, but men in general. I wonder what you have gathered over the time you were a sex worker, that has helped you understand marriage and life.
I think I have learned things. Some men that I met I felt that I was able to help them on the particular path they were on. This was mostly in terms of their confidence. I know it’s a common belief that all men are out to shag anything in a skirt. In fact there are a lot of men out there with no confidence at all sexually. That’s why I think some of them do go to see sex workers. I know I had some guys who felt inadequate; felt they didn’t actually know what to do. And because they were so honest, and vulnerable, and they felt they could open up to me, because they saw me as a real human being, not just somebody who wanted their money – I suppose, in a way, I became a bit of a counsellor. For those guys, I know, I helped them to gain confidence sexually. I helped them to experience what to do when, hopefully, they did meet a girlfriend.
With the other guys, I know that they felt their seeing a sex worker was keeping their marriage together. One guy in particular loved his wife to bits. They had lovely children, they had a nice life, but she had decided, when they had their last child that they were not going to have sex any more. He had a high sex drive, and so seeing me kept his marriage going in one sense. The fact that he was having his needs met enabled him to stay with his wife. She didn’t even want to be cuddled or held by him, and he was a very loving guy. He was a caring, sensitive person, and needed to be held and wanted physically and emotionally.
Do you think that some women don’t understand that it is not simply the man’s personality that pushes him to need sex? It is his body that he has to cope with. His whole glandular system pushes him towards that release, and if he doesn’t get it reasonably regularly, enormous tension even neurosis can build up. I know some women also have a high sex drive, but it seems to be some sort of stereotype for a number of women to talk about men as if, as you say, they will shag anything in a skirt.
Exactly. That is something I really did learn – that everybody’s needs are different. And going back to that particular married man, I learned a lot about him because we saw each other for about five years. I found it so interesting that his wife had decided, just because they had had their last child, that there was not going to be a sex life ever again.
Obviously, because she no longer had the sexual appetite, or even a desire to be touched or held, automatically that meant that from her point of view, her husband didn’t have those needs either. He used to cry sometimes in my arms. He used to cry, because he loved his wife so much and his family life, and he didn’t want to break free of the family life, but it was painful for him to think that he might have to spend the next 20 years, as a highly sexually active man, not having sex. So I think for him, seeing me on a monthly basis, held his marriage together.
I know that I am not seeing him now in that way, but I know he goes round and sees lots of women. He was seeing me, exclusively, other than his wife, for that time, and now that we don’t have that relationship, he is shagging about.
He is not in a relationship with anybody particular, but he pays to go and see a lot of women. I think that’s really sad because he is not getting the satisfaction he needs.
I am not sure if you will understand this question, but when you look at the way society views sex workers – for instance that man’s wife would probably be horrified if she knew – because that is a public view of prostitution. So it is generally accepted that if you are married, then you honour your wife or husband. Do you think there is anything wrong with those attitudes?
Do you mean the women’s attitudes?
No, just at the general social attitudes towards sex outside marriage. It is considered wrong, and prostitution is illegal in this country. I wonder how you see that.
I think I can understand why it is frowned upon. In some people’s eyes, paying for sex is automatically associated with hookers on the street who are looking for quick money for drugs or to pay off their pimp. The location, or the surroundings, you know, in a dark alley, or wherever it might be is far less than salubrious. So the whole association is that it is dirty, sleazy and unclean. So I can understand why people with those associations see prostitution as such an ugly and bad thing.
But of course, there are other sides to it. I don’t associate what I did with that at all. I would never walk the streets and meet people in their cars and things like that. I have heard of people and some I know, who have done that, and have ended up being raped and physically abused. Horrible things have happened to them. It is almost like asking for trouble. But they were people who have been desperate for money for drugs.
I know of a woman who agreed to have anal sex in the back of someone’s car in London for six pounds. It was unprotected as well. Six pounds!? She was so desperate for money. To me that is really sad, and those type of people need help.
And the guys who shag women for six pounds they are fuelling this terrible industry. If they had any real feelings or morals, they wouldn’t do it. That is my opinion. So I don’t have much respect for someone who would go and be with that type of person. Whereas I do for someone who says, I’m single, I’m shy, I haven’t got any confidence, I’ve got my needs, and want a cuddle, I want affection and I want sex. Even if they don’t want perfection some of them just want sex. They are in there for the sex, and that’s fair enough. They are honest and say, I need it, and I’m happy to pay for it.
They would go somewhere, or they will ring someone – okay if some of them have their sick fantasy or whatever – but at least they are being honest about it.
I don’t think I have really answered your question but they’re just thoughts I have. Why am off on something else.
Well, you are suggesting that our society is in many ways dishonest.
Yes, I suppose they feel they have to be because, if you were having a family Christmas dinner with somebody, and I asked you if you had met somebody, you wouldn’t say, “Oh yes, I’m fine because I go to see a prostitute.”
The conversation would just stop dead, wouldn’t it? In most family circles it would anyway.
That is because our society closes certain doors, and in some societies women have several husband’s, and in some societies men have several wives. In China at one time the man could have concubines. The women were not on the street then and were part of a family group. They were looked after, they were fed, and it was an acceptable part of the community.
Exactly, there was nothing sleazy her about it. It takes the sleaziness out of it completely. Some animals are monogamous and some aren’t, and I don’t think humans are monogamous animals. We all have different sexual needs. And at different times of our lives we have different sexual needs. They are not always sexual needs. Sometimes they are very physical needs.
Yes, and emotional needs are very pressing too.
As I said, I had some guys really open up to me. I had so many guys say to me that they had never been able to tell anybody else about the things they were saying to me. I felt like, wow, I’m virtually a stranger and you are telling me these things. It was really personal stuff they were telling me, about how they felt, what was happening to them, and their feelings about not having a girlfriend.
I felt it was quite an honour to be in that situation where I could be that person who helped them.
So, it sounds as if you were working as a real professional. Is that how you felt?
I certainly got a lot of satisfaction from that work. And I don’t mean just sexual satisfaction. I got a lot of satisfaction generally. However, there are a lot of arseholes out there as well.
I am talking about the guys. Some of them get off on ringing up and then not arriving, and that was happening more and more. I found that I was having too much of my time wasted. So, the guys who were coming to me on a regular basis, I just let them know that I wasn’t going to carry on, either with the agency, or with the setup that the friend and I got together. So with the guys that I could trust I gave them my personal number and we worked that way. With those people I saw them at my place. Maybe they came once a month, or once a fortnight for a while.